Lobbyist Frank Dunlop has said that a businessman, John Butler, who part-owned lands at Cloghran in north Dublin, and a land agent, Tim Collins, both indicated to him that they knew that some councillors would have to be paid for supporting a rezoning application.
Mr Dunlop told the Mahon tribunal yesterday that he was introduced to Mr Butler, one of the members of the Cloghran consortium, by Mr Collins. He said that the consortium wanted to have the land rezoned for industry and that he had a "residual recollection" that there was some mention of developing a hotel on the site.
Mr Dunlop said that both Mr Butler and Mr Collins told him they had significant support for the rezoning.
Mr Butler had said that Fianna Fáil councillor GV Wright was "completely onside". However, he did not conclude that Mr Butler had paid money to Mr Wright.
Mr Dunlop said that when he met the two men, in January 1993, he pointed out that discussions on the Dublin Development Plan had been going on since late 1990 and that it was going to be difficult to get people to support the rezoning bid.
He had had previous dealings with Mr Collins, but this conversation marked the first time that the land agent had said, in the presence of others, that councillors were going to have to be paid for their support.
Asked by Judge Alan Mahon as to what specifically was said, Mr Dunlop replied: "Mr Collins said that he knew that I would have to do certain things with the councillors, otherwise they wouldn't support it."
Asked by Patricia Dillon SC, for the tribunal, if Mr Collins had said he knew he would have to pay councillors, Mr Dunlop said: "In those terms, in that language, I cannot say that he definitely used those words. We are three grown-up men sitting around a table talking about development of land for rezoning purposes. We are not talking about bringing councillors out to lunch."
Ms Dillon said that Mr Butler would say that he was not aware of any money being paid by Mr Dunlop to secure councillors' support for the rezoning.
Mr Dunlop has told the tribunal that positively he had no discussions with other members of the Cloghran consortium, Niall Kenny and Thomas Williams, about the need to bribe councillors, nor was he led to believe that they were au fait with the system then in Dublin County Council.
