Gerry Adams has told the High Court that he cannot be expected to remember every death that occurred during the Troubles, after stating that he could not recall the death toll of several atrocities in the conflict.
The former Sinn Féin leader was being cross-examined on the fourth day of his defamation action against the BBC.
Mr Adams claims a BBC Spotlight programme and related article published in 2016 defamed him by falsely accusing him of sanctioning the 2006 killing of MI5 agent Denis Donaldson. The BBC denies it defamed Mr Adams.
Mr Adams and Paul Gallagher SC, appearing for the BBC, on Friday engaged in sometimes heated exchanges, in particular when Mr Gallagher asked the plaintiff of his memory of specific atrocities during the Troubles.
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On numerous occasions, Mr Adams said that he could not be expected to remember details of every single death during The Troubles.
Mr Adams said that he did not remember how many people were killed in the Provisional IRA’s Bloody Friday bombings in Belfast in July 1972, or the bombing in Claudy, Co Derry in the same month. He described both incidents as disasters.
When asked about the death toll of Bloody Friday, Mr Adams said: “You’re trivialising those deaths, if you don’t mind me saying so.”
Mr Adams said counsel was “persistently” asking him to remember events and atrocities, and suggested he was “oblivious” to the fact that people bereaved by these events may be listening to what he is saying.
“I live in the North, I live in Belfast. I move and live among people who suffered in the conflict,” he said, adding that it wasn’t “fair” that they should hear if he remembered a specific incident or not.
Mr Adams several times queried the rationale of Mr Gallagher’s line of questioning. Mr Gallagher told Mr Adams that he didn’t have to explain his rationale, and that his counsel would intervene if his questions were irrelevant.
Asked what proportion of those killed in The Troubles were the responsibility of the IRA, Mr Adams said he didn’t have the exact figure, but said it was a large proportion. “What has this got to do with the Spotlight programme?” he then asked.
Mr Adams said he could speak from personal experience about the impact of the Troubles. He said he had family members shot to death, his home bombed, and that he was shot. He said there are still active threats against him from dissidents.
He said that he’d met numerous victims and survivors, including victims of the IRA.
Mr Gallagher also asked Mr Adams about his participation in talks with the British government in 1972.
Mr Adams agreed he was released from Long Kesh prison – where he had been interned – to participate in truce talks. He said he and Dáithí Ó Conaill attended those talks in their capacity as Sinn Féin representatives.
Mr Adams said their brief was to try to broker a ceasefire deal, which Mr Ó Conaill would “bring back” to the IRA leadership.
He said Sinn Féin had not been empowered to negotiate on behalf of the IRA.
Asked if Mr Ó Conaill was a member of the IRA, Mr Adams said that he “may well have been”, but that he couldn’t say.
Asked if he read subsequently that Mr Ó Conaill was a very important member of the IRA, Mr Adams said: “Yes ... but I’ve read the same things about myself.”
Mr Adams said he, along with Mr Ó Conaill, Seán Mac Stíofáin, Ivor Bell, Seamus Twomey and Martin McGuinness, attended a subsequent meeting in London with British officials, including the then secretary of state, William Whitelaw.
Mr Adams said the men were not negotiating on behalf of the IRA. “We were trying to negotiate a settlement ... to end centuries of conflict,” Mr Adams said.
Mr Adams said he couldn’t say if Mr Bell, Mr Twomey or Mr McGuinness were in the IRA. He said that Mr Mac Stíofáin was the “self-professed” chief of staff of the IRA.
Asked if he believed the British government believed they were negotiating with representatives of the IRA, Mr Adams said: “I can’t speak for the British, and I have no desire to do so.”
In responding to a question about the killing of innocent civilians in the bombing of two pubs in Birmingham in November 1974, Mr Adams said that “one of the biggest regrets” of his life was that so many civilians were killed during The Troubles.
Mr Adams said that his view was that the IRA were entitled to use “armed actions”, but said that he didn’t agree with everything the IRA did.
He said he was not “here” to justify every action of the IRA.
The trial, before Mr Justice Alexander Owen, continues. It is expected to run for four weeks.
The BBC denies it defamed Mr Adams, and claims the Spotlight programme and publication were put out in good faith and during the course of discussion on a subject of public and vital interest. The BBC says the programme constituted responsible journalism that was the result of careful investigation.
Mr Adams has at all times denied any involvement in Mr Donaldson’s death, for which dissident republicans claimed responsibility in 2009. He claims all allegations connecting him or the IRA to the death are attempts to discredit republicans.
