SOCCER ANGLES: It is part of Sunderland fans' fate to live on the edge of hope only to slump into a valley of disappointment. Perhaps now is different

WHERE ARE Sunderland? As Manchester United approach Wearside this afternoon, that is a more difficult question to answer than, for example, where is Sunderland? The answer to that is: Over there by the North Sea, on the edge of things.

However, even though they are mid-table six games into the season, that might be appropriate as a reply to the state of the club as well as to its geography. Not wholly glib.

It is part of Sunderland fans’ fate to live on the edge of hope only to slump into a valley of disappointment. But perhaps now is different. Perhaps.

For Niall Quinn’s sake, one hopes so. It is just over four years since Quinn pushed the Drumaville consortium over the takeover line at the Stadium of Light. Sunderland had just been relegated from the Premier League with 15 points.

They were skint, €49 million in debt, and embarrassed. The Academy was an empty building that Sunderland-born Adam Johnson, for one, decided to resist.

There are other examples of how sick the club was. That need  restating because where you start on the grid defines your achievement, or it should.

United, for example, had gone 25 years without the title, that is why Alex Ferguson’s achievement deserves the recognition it receives. He was an agent of change as Liverpool will confirm.

Conversely, at Chelsea, Carlo Ancelotti is suffering – in terms of praise – from his bountiful inheritance – Terry, Drogba, Lampard, Essien etc. Had Quinn inherited half of one of those players in the summer of 2006 he would have been grateful.

But what about now?

Four years on, Steve Bruce has succeeded Ricky Sbragia who succeeded Roy Keane who followed Quinn and Drumaville to the north-east.

Ellis Short first joined the Drumaville men, then bought them out as the Irish economy began to crack. A reasonable estimate is that since buying out Drumaville for €25 million, Short has funded Sunderland at around €23 million a year.

That’s €94 million so far, money he won’t get back, at least not in the short-term. Only if Short sold up would that happen and judging by the way he celebrated Darren Bent’s equaliser against Arsenal a fortnight ago, Sunderland have bought Short’s heart. It’s been a two-way purchase.

What have he and Quinn to show for it? Well, three seasons in the Premier League. That’s a start, one that would have been snaffled in the summer of 2006.

There have been two transfer records – Bent and Asamoah Gyan – there is a younger, evolving squad, a developing Academy and a business off the pitch. There have been some good days, too, like Arsenal. As opposed to 2006, Sunderland has life about it.

Crucially there is stability.

There have been lows. There have been poor, and expensive, signings. The club was nearly relegated in its second season up. Keane departed. When the annual accounts have been published for the last two years they show a €28 million loss each time.

Quinn detests the implications of that word “loss” – for him it should say “investment” or “progress”. Without that money there would be no Bent, no Craig Gordon. To Quinn “loss” is an accounting term that confuses the issue. It recognises neither the ashes they were in, nor the construction since.

But, in a way that we were not in 2006, we are all more familiar with loss and debt and economics.

People are fearful.

That’s a change, as is the rise of Tottenham under Harry Redknapp, Aston Villa under Martin O’Neill and then there is Manchester City. In 2006 they were managed by Stuart Pearce.

It is a changing landscape and in the north-east there is concern about another, the new coalition government’s looming Comprehensive Spending Review.

Attendances at the Stadium of Light are already down some 10 per cent this season and today’s game is unlikely to be sold out. The recession is taking hold, and one suspects is about to worsen. It makes Quinn even more furious about the rise of illegal transmission of matches in pubs. It all hurts. But that is where the team need to step in. Were Sunderland a more reliable proposition, the stadium might be full this afternoon.

There is a benefit to paying to go in and 10 days ago this column paid its €17 for the visit of West Ham in the League Cup. It was just after Arsenal and Sunderland fans wanted a good run. It’s a cup they felt they had a chance in. It was also Gyan’s home debut. The four people behind me brought a Chinese takeaway.

Sitting among them was as instructive as Bruce’s team, lethargic and pattern-free, lost dismally 2-1 to a side with one point in the Premier League.

It all smelled bad. “Typical Sunderland,” you could hear Keane saying hundreds of miles away. At this economic time, my mate described the occasion as “a crowd-killer”. You could feel the disappointment, decades old.

Four days later, Sunderland drew at Anfield. It turns out West Ham had been sandwiched between draws against Arsenal and Liverpool.

So where are Sunderland?

On the cusp, of something.

City project is still a work in progress

THEY SHOWED old footage of Niall Quinn in sky blue at Eastlands on Thursday night. Maine Road, what a place.

But it’s all gone now – Manchester City are a project in progress and the release of their financial figures revealed just how expensive that project is.

Considering they are in the same league as Sunderland, this is different-league stuff. The template appears to be Abramovich’s Chelsea.

If City jump like Chelsea did then it will be deemed worth it presumably, though you can doubt whether either City or Chelsea will be ready to fulfil the Uefa fair play regulations that land in 2014.

That is all part of the urgency. As the giant screen showed with Quinn, parts of the past retain their meaning, but it was interesting that the Europa League game against Juventus was being called a new beginning for City.

That ignores the fact they reached the quarter-final of the Uefa Cup two seasons ago, losing to Hamburg.

That was in April of last year, yet seven of the starters from the second leg have been sold or banished.

There is turnover and there is turnover.

Thursday’s was not a great match. City often lacked speed and cohesion.

Roberto Mancini took off his centre forward, Emmanuel Adebayor, with 17 minutes left and the score 1-1.

There was some satisfaction taken from drawing against such a prestigious side as Juventus, yet that conveniently ignored the scoreline – Fulham 4 Juventus 1, from March.

Juventus haven’t won a European trophy since 1996.