Former taoiseach Bertie Ahern has said it will take a lengthy period of time before Northern Ireland will be ready for conventional government-versus-opposition politics.
Asked if it was time to end the d’Hondt system of choosing ministers from each party for the Northern Executive and return to regular democracy, Mr Ahern replied: “If they try normality now, it will be a step too far.”
Mr Ahern was speaking in the Shelbourne Hotel at the launch of a podcast series for Newstalk, ‘As I Remember It: Bertie Ahern & The Good Friday Agreement’. The nine-part series coincides with the 25th anniversary of the historic accord.
During the course of the series, he had long conversations with key participants including US president Bill Clinton, British prime minister Tony Blair and the chair of the talks, Senator George Mitchell. The podcast was officially launched by Alastair Campbell, Mr Blair’s former press secretary.
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In a live interview with Pat Kenny of Newstalk, Mr Ahern was asked was it time to go back to regular democracy.
“My own view is that the institutions of the Good Friday Agreement have to be running for a lengthy period in a sustainable safe way before we go to a government-opposition system. That is going to take some time.”
He said there had been a review in 2006 in St Andrew’s and there was always the option of another review.
“The only thing I would warn people faced with [the challenges of bringing the process forward] is there has to be cross community consent.
“The whole deal is based on nothing being agreed until everything is agreed. There can’t be any changes until everybody has agreed.
“To get agreement on some fundamental issues is not possible at this stage. My advice is to get institutions up and running and get a new boost. I am confident that will happen.
“Down the road hopefully there will be a day when they return to normality. If they try normality now it will be a step too far.
“Unfortunately, to try to do two jumps together won’t work. We have to stay with the present system.”
Mr Ahern said at the heart of the protocol issue was a conflict between Britishness and Irishness.
“It’s a divided society and a divided people... We have not got to the stage when we can say we have all crossed the Rubicon.”
Asked what his advice would be to British prime minister Rishi Sunak, he said he would tell him to make sure he has done the preparatory work.
He said some senior people had told him a deal on the protocol would be announced on Sunday and he had asked them: “What Sunday?”
“The idea that it can be wrapped up tomorrow and the next day is not a good idea. The ducks have to be in row. As I understand the ducks are not all in a row yet,” he said.
In his opening remarks, Mr Campbell said that to this day he cannot stay how the agreement came together during the last day of negotiations in 1998. “It just came together somehow. A lot of it came down to the personalities involved. Clinton made a difference. Mitchell made a difference.” He added Chris Patton was “one of the unsung heroes in relation to policing.”
Mr Ahern said David Trimble agreed to do an interview for the podcast but he died before it could happen. The former taoiseach said that the former Ulster Unionist Party leader and First Minister ended up losing everything.
“He lost out because decommissioning took too long and he lost his seat and his party and an awful lot. He did not feel too bitter.”
Speaking about the exhausting nature of the last few days of talks, Mr Ahern said it became very intense when they got close to the finishing line.
He said suddenly small delegations from parties became much larger and it became harder and more complicated. He said at one stage Mr Trimble arrived with as many delegates to make up two football teams.
“We could have gone on another night but after that we would all have fallen down dead.
“You kept on going. The question at the end is would we succeed or would we fail. Nobody wanted it to fail,” he said.
