Mr Ben Dunne was a very depressed man, recovering from a cocaine problem and mentally "not stable" at the time he met the former Taoiseach, Mr Charles Haughey, for lunch in Abbeville in May 1993, the tribunal heard yesterday.
The businessman said he had no recollection of giving a cheque for £20,000 to Mr Haughey at either of two lunches around that time in Abbeville, but believed that on the "balance of probability" it did happen.
He was being questioned about the latest payment he made to Mr Haughey which was discovered by the tribunal. He could think of "no reason whatsoever" for giving Mr Haughey £20,000.
He was challenged about his lack of recollection by counsel for the tribunal, Mr John Coughlan SC, who put it that Mr Dunne remembered all the circumstances surrounding his social intercourse with Mr Haughey but could not remember anything about giving a cheque to him.
Mr Dunne said he did not understand it himself, but it was a fact that he could not recall it. At the time he had been in hospital after an accident when he badly damaged both legs.
He said he was very depressed and not of stable mind at the time. The difficulties with his siblings were "in train". He had ceased to have an active role in Dunnes Stores.
Mr Dunne, who has given a waiver to the tribunal over all his personal accounts, was questioned about a cheque dated May 29th, 1993 for £20,000, which was made payable to cash and lodged to Mr Haughey's account at the then Northern Bank. It was signed by Mr Dunne and drawn on his personal account at AIB in Upper O'Connell Street, Dublin, where he lodged his income from Dunnes Stores. The cheque was endorsed by both Mr Haughey and Mrs Maureen Haughey and lodged on June 2nd, 1993. He said he had two lunches in Abbeville with Mr Haughey around that time. He believed that at least one of the lunches was while he was in hospital recovering from the accident and then again shortly afterwards. Mr Haughey phoned him and asked him to come out and "have a bite of lunch".
He said Mr Denis McCoy, a friend, who drove him, attended the lunch and Mrs Haughey would have been there. It was an informal outdoor lunch of salad. He did not think his health was discussed just, probably, an inquiry as to how he was.
He was in a wheelchair and the lunch lasted an hour or an hour and a half. Mr Dunne told Mr Coughlan he was not the type of person to bring a gift when he was invited to a house. He never sent anything afterwards either.
He told the tribunal that Mr Haughey never asked him for money and he had no recollection of giving him or Mrs Haughey the cheque. He had no recollection of giving the cheque but on balance of probabilities, and process of elimination he thought he must have given it to Mr or Mrs Haughey at one of those lunches. It was an "outside possibility" that he gave the cheque to someone else, but very unlikely.
The cheque could have been for charity as he gave a lot of money to people for charities. The chairman of the tribunal, Mr Justice Moriarty, put it that it would not be the norm for a charitable donation to be a cash payment. Mr Dunne said, however, that in relation to charities he might not have been able to spell the words so he would make it out to cash. Mr Dunne accepted that it was a substantial drawing from the account but said he would not have filled in the stub of his chequebook. He had the habit, and still had, of not filling in the stub.
Mr Coughlan challenged him on his lack of recollection.
"You can remember going to the lunches, not bringing a present, being in a wheelchair, the type of lunch, where you may have been sitting." How could Mr Dunne then have "such frailty when it comes to recollecting a £20,000 cheque?"
Mr Dunne replied: "I don't understand it myself but it is a fact, I don't recall it, sir."
